Universal Videogame List - www.uvlist.net

Characters with multiple "states"
thread liste     
von Sanguine
# 3 months and 6 days ago
Should characters that are seen transform from one character to another have different entries? Or characters that appear as something else

Examples:
* The Sarafan Lord in Blood Omen 2, although actually a demon, this was a guise he held and I don't remember it being revealed otherwise within that game (revealed in another game in the series, as I understand).
* Warcraft 3's Arthas before and after his death, the former is a paladin and prince while the latter is an undead death knight, an antithesis to his former self. Though I'm not sure if he's actually mind controlled by Frostmourne, in which case he wouldn't really be two characters.
* The various Disney versions of historical/fictional characters. (currently some of these are treated as separate, which I personally prefer, but they have no relation to the originals)

And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of others, but the point is: they're the same character, yet they aren't. The most obvious cases are those where the character type changes (undead, humanoid, etc.), but the Disney cases are less so, but still similarly different characters.

Personally I'd like there to be a way to create... character variants of a sort, with some link back to the "original". This would also make some cases of name bundling less of a spoiler, although the links would need to be hidden in some cases (and shown at request).
von Zerothis
# 3 months and 3 days ago
What is their true form? If you asked the character, and they had full knowledge of themselves, what would they say?
von Sanguine
# 3 months and 3 days ago
If I understood that correctly, I'd assume you mean we're to create multiple characters for each of them. Otherwise I can only repeat my earlier examples.
von Airhead91
# 3 months and 2 days ago
Does this include Sonic the Hedgehog and his alternate form Super Sonic?
von Sanguine
# 3 months and 2 days ago
Well, I don't know what Super Sonic actually is. But as I understand, Super Sonic is "just" powered up form of Sonic (a bit like he has some über-duber armor or weapon), so... no, he doesn't. But if he perceives himself as different person, then it would definitely be, otherwise I don't see any way to categorize him differently than regular sonic. Similarly Breath of Fire games have the main character transforming into some dragon-like entity, yet they're still exactly the "same" as before.

Clark Kent as Super Man's guise would be closer because he separates the two as two different people, even though both are the same truth. This is what the Sarafan Lord example was, but in case of the Sarafan Lord, it's a spoiler, but everyone knows Clark Kent is Super Man. Pretty much means for protagonists this is much more difficult to define.

IIRC, Jean Grey / Phoenix is a good example. They're the completely different people yet many perceive them to be the same in some level.

Seems that "state" was not as clear or good choice to describe what I was looking for, now.
von Sanguine
# 3 months and 2 days ago (updated 3 months and 2 days ago)
Most obvious cases are when adding the character and you don't know _which_ character class (human, monster, undead, etc.) to use for them because different ones applies depending on different things, like with Arthas, early on he's humanoid, yet later on on the story he's undead (and completely different person with that). But not limited to these.

Wish I had a list of characters we already have to put as examples now.

Edit: Smeagol/Gollum might be another example, Gollum being the completely corrupted form of Smeagol with little or none of the earlier personality left (they're even physically completely different).
Edit2: I feel like I'm contradicting myself with the Super Sonic case, and I can't explain it better than how I already have.
Edit3: Super Sonic could be considered in the way the Disney variations of some characters, but this would make the BoF case also valid for similar treatment.

Samir Duran and Kerrigan from Star Craft belong to these. Though as far as I know, Samir Duran only in the same way as the Sarafan Lord (although he's practically the same way as a turn-coat here and therefore not valid). Kerrigan obviously has Sarah Kerrigan and Infested Kerrigan states, and although the latter retains the memories of the former, the personality is totally different.
von Zerothis
# 3 months and 1 day ago
Clark Kent as Super Man's guise

Actually Super Man wears Clark Kent as a disguise, opposite from nearly all other superheroes.
von Sanguine
# 3 months and 1 day ago
opposite from nearly all other superheroes.

Mostly those that want to live a "normal" life have them, like Batman and Spiderman.
von Sanguine
# 3 months and ago
CLAMP's characters would especially benefit from this in a way.
von Sanguine
# 2 months and 29 days ago
The primary purpose would be to maintain character relations in the manner that one character is based or derived from another. This way we can have Aladdin in Disney state that it's based on Aladdin in Arabian Nights. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Disney doesn't follow the original stories very closely, and therefore using the original characters for them would be "criminal".

This may invite creation of characters that never actually appear in games in their normal form, but only as derivatives, but if there are more than one, there'd then be something to tie them together.

Better wording probably is "variant of", as that would cover characters based on character, derived from character and characters that resemble some character but aren't (and the relation is somehow acknowledged).
von Sanguine
# 2 months and 21 days ago
Jean-Luc Picard and Locutus of Borg is a good example most should be familiar with.
von Zerothis
# 2 months and 19 days ago
Jean-Luc Picard and Locutus of Borg is a good example most should be familiar with.


A character called Locutus of Borg was planned but not fulfilled. Picard was unwilling to become the Queen's counterpart and so was simply assimilated as a drone except for having his personality preserved and suppressed. Locutus became nothing more than a designation for the body-machine where Picard was trapped while his personality and knowledge were used without his control by the Borg collective. There was never a Locutus character. 'Born' Borg can develop an identity where none was before. But assimilated individuals encounter vast difficulties in recovering their original identities and seem never to fully recover. Individual identity has proven repeatedly to be the most effective threat to the Borg. Indeed, many collective species of the the Star Trek universe encounter this difficulty. It makes sense that destroying the identity of the assimilated would be a high priority strategy for the Borg to have developed very early in the original war in which they first fought. Picard uniquely remained himself with remarkably little damage to his identity. It was obviously the Borg's own efforts to keep his identity intact to aid in negotiate with humans and allow the designated Locutus to speak familiarly with Picard's friends and acquaintances. The Borg's risk of preserving Picard's identity turned out not to be worth it, as Picard was able to overcome the Borg implants just enough to give the Enterprise crew a clue on how to defeat the Borg. Had their been any identity at all to Locutus, he would have been in a much better position than Picard to keep control of the body-machine they shared. But no, it was the collective that controlled it, when the collected was distracted, so was the designate Locutus. They were on in the same.


I'm not saying their isn't such a character that switches states, just that Picard-Locutus isn't it. Now Dax is a much more complicated and likely candidate.
von Sanguine
# 2 months and 19 days ago
re: re:
Now Dax is a much more complicated and likely candidate.

Yes, and fortunately all of them have different names with only the Dax part similar :) Don't seem to be many games with Dax though - only one according to screenshots, but they're woefully incomplete source for determining that.
von Zerothis
# 2 months and 19 days ago
I decided to devote some thought to the Daxes.
The humanoid hosts are easily recognized as individuals. The symbionts are not as easily recognized because they are so different from human individuals that are familiar with. But there is a Dax. It is very complicated. The Dax symbiont can persist without a host and during these times as a complete, albeit relatively helpless, individual. The symbiont eat, grow, reproduce, and communicate in their highly specialized and controlled liquid habitats deep underground. One can assume that they were extremely small in number when they relied on natural processes to maintain their environments (if they even ever existed in such a state, rather than co-evolving with host species, or evolving from a much hardier species in their currently host dependent form, any of which would be consistent with with the Trek universe) Even if the host loses their identity, and even if it is due to brain damage that leaves only the brain stem partially functioning, the symbiont can persist in using the host's body for a short time.
Dax symbiont is an individual that would say they are a symbiont. It has been established that symbionts have very strong identities.
The humanoid hosts are individuals that would say they are humanoids. These humanoids are required to have strong identities as well, to prevent them from being overwhelmed by the symbiont's identity.
Ok, here's the really complicated part,
The joined Trill are individuals that would say they are not their former humanoid selves. They say "he" and "she", 3rd person, like they were any other person besides themselves. They would also not say they are symbionts, again using 3rd person language to talk about "the symbiont I carry". They are a new joined-person of a joined-personality. A joining of a whole person with another whole person to make a third whole person. Not a transformation, the resulting person is more like a child of the symbiont & host, with each contributing parts of themselves to the new individual. but they are not gone, just dormant in their own will. Should they be separated, both personalities will assert themselves in full.

So, I'd say not state changing


Next complicated candidate:
Chris Major from John Varley's Gaea trilogy. He's suffering from an unknown neurological disease that includes schizophrenia in its side effects. Then he starts transforming into a Titanide (a created race of aliens by an alien designer). It is his sincere wish to be a Titanide, not just a human transformed into one. A further complication, is his human son which he only found out about after the titanization process began. I don't remember how it turned out. Oh well, I don't think there's any videogames from the books yet. Their probably will be when they make a movie of them.
thread liste     
Welcome new user!

You can create a free account to vote, review, tag games, add images, view galleries and more.
login:
password:
Forum search
forum threads

Select your language





DISCLAIMER: Alle Bildgallerien, Logos und Namen are Eigentum der entsprechenden Autoren - Diese Seite nutzt kein und erlaubt kein kopiergeschütztes Material, so wie ISO, roms, Software, Musik, Filme oder ähnliches. Die Seite baut hauptsächlich auf Reviews, Screenshots und verschiedenen Spieledetails auf. - Bitte setzen Sie sich mit mir in Verbindung wenn Sie glauben, dass Ihre Arbeit in einer Art benutzt wird, die eine Verletzung des Kopierschutzes darstellt.