Universal Videogame List - www.uvlist.net

I can think that this is not really porting, simply the newest platform is retro-compatible with the former, just like most Amiga500 games could run on the Amiga1200.
Perhaps most of the Thomson MO5 can run on the MO8?
I suggest to add the games to the MO5, and if only few games are compatible, then add a note.

Well,... no. MO5 works only with tapes or cartridges and TO8 works with tapes, disks and cartridges. Games that I was talking about exist on tapes (for MO5) AND disks (for TO8), but they are exactly the same game..

Some Thomson platforms are retro-compatibles but some are not, that's why it's difficut to handle...

1st platform : TO7, tapes and cartridges.
2nd platform : MO5, tapes and cartridges but non compatible with TO7. As tapes have two sides, the most often, one side is compatible with TO7 and the other is compatible with MO5.
3rd platform : TO8, tapes, disks and cartridges, compatible with MO5 and TO7.
4th platform : MO6, tapes, disks and cartridges, compatible witg MO5, non-compatible with TO7.

Some games, like L'Aigle d'Or, have been released on three versions : a double-side tape, one side for MO5 and the other for TO7 and a disk for TO8, but the three versions are exactly the same game.

Well... Not easy to handle. Maybe that the best solution would be to group all games under one platform called Thomson, then specify in each game description which platforms the game can run on... Or else to reference three times the same game, but I'm not sure that's the best solution...

There _are_ the (storage) media tags which could be used for this.. I have no idea for what they're used right now elsewhere, but this seems actually suitable use for them here.

May be right.

What do Andrea think of it ? If you agree, can you group Thomson platforms to one platform (called Thomson, I think) ?

Do not forget that there is the hardware field.
It is usually used to identify the various arcade hardwares, but can be used for this purpose too.
It may sound similar to the tags field, but it's better to use specific field when available.

I suggest to use descriptive (and lowercase) names like thomsonto5 even if sounds strange.
This will nicely link to the upcoming hardware list.

I suggest to use the first platform, Thomson MO 5 as the main one, how should it be renamed? Thomson?
When all the games of the other Thomson platforms will be moved I'll remove the platforms in excess.

I have used tags extensively to indicate hardware. I gather from your posts and various hints that their will soon (or someday) be a new way, other than tags and the hardware field to indicate such things as:
6-button & 3-button (Megadrive)
pro-controller & standard (Jaguar)
Multitaps
x86, 68k, 040, PPC (Mac, Amiga, Linux)
Mouse, Trackball, Paddles (C64, Apple II E, Apple IIGS, Atari 400/800, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, Atari ST, Atari Jaguar, CD-I, Lynx, MegaCD, Megadrive, NES, 32X, Palm, PSX, PS2, PS3, SNES, WinCE)
RAM Expansion (NeoGeo, N64, Saturn, MegaCD)

Will the hardware field or certain tags be automatically added to the new Hardware list? If so I can begin consolidating the information in the database now in preparation for auto transfer. Otherwise, I will continue adding hardware tags in the manner I have, so as to maintain consistence in my mess I will have to transfer to the new list once it is implemented. Unless there are any objections of course.

You can continue to use tags like now, when the "hardware stuff" will be ready, I'll code something to scan all the games with tags, find the tags hardware-related (from a list we will build), assign the correct device to the games and then remove the now useless tag from the game.

The "hardware stuff" will work like this:
- From any platform page, a new editor button will let you add a new device to the platform. (exactly like you can add characters to groups)
- In every game page a new editor button will list all the devices related to the game platform.
- Click to add to the game.

More:
- When adding a device to a platform, you could add images too.
- A new page, "hardware peripherals" will be created. Global (any device) or platform related.
- A button "i own it" will be available to any logged user.
- A new page, "user hardware" will be created.

Questions:
- I'm using the words "hardware","device" and "peripheral". We have to choose the the best to use globally.
- Flooding: do not add the tag "68k" to all the Amiga games, if really needed I will make a "batch update" when everything is ready.
- While, for completeness, we will able to add any possible device, even cables or rare stuff, I doubt we need to relate "cables" or other obvious things to games. (I expect a new forum thread to discuss on this)

Yes, I think Thomson is right.



OK. What about a game like L'Aigle d'Or, which have been released on three Thomson platforms (MO5, TO7 and TO8) ? Should I write "thomsonto7 thomsonto8" to the arcade field, or maybe "thomsonmo5 thomsonto7 thomsonto8" ? Or what else ?

EDIT :


I think "hardware" is fine.

CPUs, devices, peripheral, controllers, even media (cartridge/disk/tape) are all technically hardware. I think "Hardware" would cover it.


Yes, I have been reluctant to tag too much hardware tags. I've tried to use it only where it seemed necessary. Such as if the game is for 68k and PPC. Or its for 68k Mac in 1998 or PPC in 2006. Or if a series of games started on 5¼ disks and only the last few in the series were available on 3½
I will glance at the tags again, verify their meaning is clear and list them here in case you'd like a checklist for automatic conversion.


Link cables for multiplayer and 2nd controller cables for portable systems (actually, this is a type of multitap) might be the only cables needed for the hardware list. If a game has an HDTV mode, this would seem more to be a software issue since low res games will display over the cable also, right?

re: re: re:

Are there really DVD drives that can't read DVD9 format? I know of DVD burners that can't _write_ it, but I've never heard of drive incapable of reading it. Not that I've paid any attention to it either, really.


Obviously something PC (Windows) games never should be tagged with it even though it's likely true for most :) Also, probably every "mouse game" for DOS had plenty of use for keyboard too, so it's kinda pointless even there. Also true for games with joystick support.


Just a more generic tag group to govern dualheads, tripleheads or any other number of "heads". And it has been optional feature in every case where I've seen it.


I created that to indicate MMO games that no longer have any official servers running (either because the publisher no longer thinks running them is profitable or because of bankrupty or some such). I don't think hardware has anything to do with it.

How would the hardware even come to play with this? Lack of existing arcade machines that run the game? How would you even prove that? Wouldn't there be some more appropriate tag for this to indicate that all the gaming machines have been destroyed or something?


How is this different from the 3dfx tag? Glide was 3dfx's proprietary API similar to Direct3D and OpenGL. Games that support 3dfx mean they run either Glide, OpenGL or Direct3D and 3dfx really doesn't have any use there if glide is used to designate it. Historical note: Glide was a bit like Creative's EAX was in its beginning days and probably what the EAX Advanced HD is now? (I haven't noticed support for it in non-Creative cards yet)

3dfx tag should really be deleted and any entries tagged with it should be tagged with glide instead.

Also, the 3D is superfluous.


What's the problem with it, really? I don't think it matters if the "hardware [didn't come] equipped for internet". If the game requires internet activation to play, then it requires it, and if the hardware doesn't support it, then the game likely isn't even for that platform. And it's not for _us_ to question the publishers'/developers' decision to require such.

Mm.. either I mislabeled it as hardware instead of software or you edited it for that. (Restored the software relation just now after checking it)


As I recall, it uses just some intentionally created bad sectors at specific locations that are usually scrapped by most CD-recording software and ignored by any ordinary CD reading. It's effective for preventing creating 1:1 copies and usually is problem free, though some drives might not support the low level ops required to detect the read errors properly?


Uses system drivers.


Uses somewhat similar method to StarForce these days, I think. Installs odd system drivers at the very least.


Seems like it uses system similar to Steam, and that's encryption. But apparently it also employs system drivers much like SecuRom, StarForce and _SafeDisc_.
Also, it's written in all caps: TAGES.

re: re: re: re:
The above is provided to aid translating tags to the new hardware list. I'm not necessarily trying to defend any of them as hardware, just listing them. I expect quite a few will not be translated to the new hardware list. A lot of them are not even 'my' tags.

But I suppose its good to be discussing them to determine if they should be or not.


A few. There are also a lot of console chip mods that sacrifice DVD9 compatibility. It is an issue if one is buying a game for the purpose of play on an emulator. Some people copy all their games to better preserve the original discs. Little kids are a particular concern that warrants a cheaper copy. Personally I would rather not pass my original disc of Gran Turismo 4 to a set of peanut butter and jelly stained fingers. That's what the DVD-R is for.


Yes, this is for when a game requires a two-player controller setup, but only one player uses them. Keyboard+Mouse has been a standard 1 player setup since the introduction of the C64 mouse (I think). Likewise, Keyboard+Joystick since the invention of the 1-button joystick:)


Hence the reason for the question. I though perhaps that this implied an alternate hardware (server) besides the official one was required to play the game.


3Dfx is a set of chips and a GPU (hardware). Glide3D is simplified software for that hardware. It is not the only API that can be used to access the 3Dfx hardware. Glide3D can also be applied to other hardware besides the 3Dfx GPU. IMO Glide3D should not be considered hardware.


I did say it was iffy.


Mm.. either I mislabeled it as hardware instead of software or you edited it for that. (Restored the software relation just now after checking it)
If your are able to edit my message please mark the list for tags that have been edited no longer hardware. I let me know in a reply. As I said before, it provided for translating hardware to the new hardware list, it should be accurate with only 'hardware' tags on it.


So is it bad data written to the sectors (software), or is it actual physical damage to the sectors? Not that it matters at the moment, I expect the new hardware list will be done before I get around to tagging any SecuROM4 infected games. Plus I don't expect any of the CP schemes to be added to it. But I am curious to know, for myself, if I'm buying poorly designed software or a purposefully damaged disc.

re: re: re: re: re:

Yes, Glide API is software, but 3dfx hardware tag has no purpose. Unless you can prove there's a game written to use 3dfx hardware directly without the aid of Glide, D3D or OGL APIs. Any lower level coding than that uses the framebuffer directly.


Goes _way_ off-topic. Anyways, it's a mix of software and hardware related and hardware only indirectly. TCP/IP networking is a software based technique and has no direct relation to hardware, you know it can be accomplished through wide variety of hardware that have little or no relation between them.

A response to the rant:


No, can't do that.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM
My info was a bit off, but that article can explain what v4 does better than I ever could.

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re:


As a matter of fact NASCAR Racing 2 does not use Glide, D3D or OpenGL. Which is probably why I added the 3Dfx tag instead of the Glide3D tag (I don't actually recall the moment, but I see that the tag on the page has my name on it, so it was me). I'm not sure why the other games got a 3Dfx tag, wasn't me. It could be because standard Glide wrappers won't work with these games. This in turn is probably because these games aren't actually using Glide. It is a fact that each of these has its own game specific 'Glide Wrapper'. But I have not facts to say these other 2 games are not using Glide. Maybe you should ask the yahoo that added this tag that has no purpose to 2 games. In fact, I'd like to know why he added these tags that has no purpose to these games also.

I'm not sure why Diablo 2 had it (I faintly recall it had option for using Glide instead of DirectX) and Redguard advertizes 3dfx on the box cover but I can't remember which API it used (likely Glide).

To contradict that statement, 3D Gamers says the game supports Glide, so I've also updated that entry to match that.

Edit: And about the shouting at the "tag that has no purpose" thing, I wasn't aware there was Glide tag when I marked those two games, and games usually advertize 3dfx support instead of Glide support. It was also rude of you, but I won't be bothered by that part :P The entries are fixed now, except for Diablo 2 which might lack the Glide tag now.

Since there are so many different copy protection schemes listed, should the use of CD keys be listed as well? It's not used always, though it is abhorrently common nowadays (on PC). Also, I don't see any benefits in listing it unless it actually affects something besides just being a requirement for installing/running the game.

re: many different copy protection schemes listed
I felt I should indicate which CP I think was hardware related and which weren't for maximum clarity. The rest of my reply can be seen here

Is not really either. I'm not sure what it should be since it's related to the publisher running the servers. So it's hardware, software, and other. The hardware nor software is not really "defunct", only their operation. The hardware is likely just some generic x86(_64) machines, so it isn't really related to that, software is likely as operational as ever, just not used anymore, so it's something else really. Should mark it as "other" after all?

UP (as I still don't know how to handle the Thomson-problem) :



Yes, I think Thomson is right.



OK. What about a game like L'Aigle d'Or, which have been released on three Thomson platforms (MO5, TO7 and TO8) ? Should I write "thomsonto7 thomsonto8" to the arcade field, or maybe "thomsonmo5 thomsonto7 thomsonto8" ? Or what else ?

Please use a semicolon as separator. Example:
thomsonmo5;thomsonto7;thomsonto8

About grouping all the games on one platform, I'd use the Thomson TO 8, for the simple reason that it has already a lot of games.
I'm going to rename it to "Thomson". Whatever the name, the link to the platform page is this.

PowerVR is a mixed software/hardware tag. Very uncommon and short-lived as DirectX and OpenGL kinda crushed any chance it had, plus it was specific to PowerVR cards like Glide was to Voodoo cards. I haven't found any listing of games that supported it so it currently is quite small group (just 1 entry at the time of writing this). AFAIK, PowerVR had PowerSGL API, which was, like Glide, based on OpenGL. All cases where I've seen it, it was called PowerVR, possibly to make end-users immediately recognize that it had something to do with their videocards.

Semicolon as hardware separator is now officially supported: (see Extreme Assault)

Done, now you can delete platforms MO5, MO6 and TO7.
Games are not yet all added, there's still lots of games for MO5 and TO7, I'll add them little by little.

So now that we can add multiple hardwares to the hardware field, should we (I) begin transferring my above list of hardwaretags (minus the disputed ones) to the hardware field?

Yes, minus the disputed ones ;-)

Should Glide3D/DirectX be in hardware field if the game supports Glide3D/DirectX _and_ software rendering? I'd think not, since it would be difficult to mark the software rendering support, then. Or other cases where it's hardware acceleration or otherwise optional.

040 68k alpha Arm MIPS PPC POKEY RISC RISC64 s390 x86 StrongARM Parallel CPUs Cartridge Cassette CDROM DVD Segacard JoyPort 4wayplay teamplay LGSS (Lynx Game Sharing System) jaglink activator boostergrip drivingcontrollers dualpaddles footcraz lightgun keypads joystick joyboard mouse paddles quadpaddles rotarycontrol stmouse triplepaddles trackball XEGun BatterUp DualLightgun PowerPad DanceMat aladdinadapter hp-48gx kidvid mockingboard supergameboy2 supergameboy supercharger verticalscreen voice (if a hardware add-on is required for it. The tag will not be eliminated because of games that have voice without hardware add-ons) R. O. B. Apple3 Alto CD32 DGeclipeMV HP3000 HP2645 HP1000 iPod nascom PDP-11-45 PDP-11 PDP-10 PDP-1 pc-88va sunsparc sparc sgi tandy1000 XEGS Socrates casioe100 casioe500 jornada820 PLATO GE-600 Honeywell6000 pdp-7 NIMROD dolbysurround Dolby Prologic II dolbydigital j-cart stereo
EDIT: Zapper (instead of generic lightgun tag)
EDIT: SegaPhaser (instead of generic lightgun tag)
EDIT2: Xscale CPU tag
So to sum up, all the hardware tags listed above will be added. After this is done, the corresponding tags will be deleted(best leave the tags, with descriptions and articles where they are until there is a hardware area to transfer these to). But this will not be done to the disputed hardware tags listed below. If anybody thinks any of the tags listed, above are not hardware, please say now. Please discuss the status of the disputed tags.
Disputed:
***** tallscreen (someone seems to be tagging normal 4/3 as tallscreen & verticalscreen both) *****
3.5disk (will be changed to 3½disk if there are no objections)
5.25disk (will be changed to 5¼disk if there are no objections)
DVD9 (Dual layer DVDs)
dualcontroller (excluding standard mouse+controller schemes an keyboard+controller)
multihead (multiple monitor option)
PowerVR (& Glide3D/DirectX)
internetactivation (for systems, including consoles, that did not come equipped with Internet hardware yet the game requires an Internet option to be added for activation. Even for off-line only games)
ProtectDisc
ProtectCD
ProtectCD-VOB (assumed to be same process as ProtectDisc)
CDSCP (Cactus Data Shield CP is not yet a tag. )
SecuROM4
nextstep (not always strictly hardware as the NeXTstep OS will run on IBM, SPARC, PA-RISC and Mac and possibly Atari ST and Amiga)
hires (iffy, this sometimes requires a different TV or monitor)
EDIT: multitap (generic tags are now disputed, but this will still be used if the multitap is 'unnamed')
EDIT: dualmultitap (generic tags are now disputed, but this will still be used if the multitap is 'unnamed')
EDIT: lightgun (generic tags are now disputed, but this will still be used if the lightgun is 'unnamed')

Definitely Not Hardware:
defunct
3Dfx (Tag was eliminated! Cool!. Occurrences were replaced with Glide3D which was a Software Tag)
StarForce
SmarteCD
SecuROM (not the same as SecuROM4)
StarForce
SafeDisc
TAGES

Voice in PC (Win, DOS, Linux, Mac) platforms tends to be optional, so I don't think that should be added to hardware in all cases. [Edit6: Microphone would be more accurate hardware descriptor]
Parallel CPUs is a bit iffy tag on PC, too. It just says the game uses more than one thread, which is software and does NOT require multiple CPUs to be present to be used.
Edit: TallScreen looks like a synonym for VerticalScreen
Edit2: DirectX, Glide and PowerVR _can_ be moved to hardware in all cases where software rendering is not possible. Actually OpenGL is mixed software/hardware tag as well. Although all of these just require drivers that interface the API to the hardware instead of being direct hardware access methods, we should consider them as both software and hardware. They're not true hardware tags, but close enough to be used as such. I'd prefer if the version numbers for DX and OGL were stated more clearly than they're with this and the current tags turned into more generic ones (actually only DX needs this since we've made no distionction between different OGL versions) [Edit7: Ok, maybe don't scrap the version numbers. It's nice to have in cases the game supports multiple.]
Edit3: MultiHead is optional in all cases I'm aware of, but if it ever becomes requirement, it should be moved to hardware like everything else.
Edit4: HiRes... if it requires new TV, then there's something more specific that can be used. There's no such thing as High Resolution TV, AFAIK (unless we talk of HD versus regular). Awfully nondescript for a hardware.
Edit5: InternetActivation is a procedure, use Modem or something as hardware tag or whatever is the common name for the thing the platform needs.

Just noted that you (Zerothis) are recording the hardware items in rather odd fashion. Reminds me of tags, even though spaces and everything else is supported.

"Intelx86cpus" should just be "x86" or "x86 CPU", for example. Not sure what use the CPU identifier has there, though.

Actually the voice tag is for when the game speaks (add-on hardware sometimes required). The speech is for speaking to the game (microphone). Microphones totally slipped my mind. There should be a 'Microphone' hardware for games like Hey You / Pikachu. Thank you.

uhm, there is no optional/required indicator for the hardware field. Are we not adding optional hardware?

I assumed that the TallScreen description was precise enough for the both of them:( I've added a bit to VerticalScreen to distinguish it.

Some game consoles can run in higher resolution *if* a monitor is used instead of a TV. The original gamecube had digital RGB output and certain games would run in higher resolutions and in widescreen using an RGB monitor. Later models removed this feature. The Megadrive was capable of more colors and higher resolutions if an RGB monitor was plugged into the special port using an adapter. Again, later models removed this feature. I don't think any games ever used RGB hires. the only hires for MD was hacked to run on a normal TV. But, all normal games would run in their original resolution even when using a hires monitor. And, as far as I know, no hires games would fail to run on a normal TV. Are there any games that only work with HDTV?

I didn't realize spaces were allowed.

dang, missed the "lowercase" part, I was going for descriptive.
I guess I'm starting over

"CPU" was in contrast to "architecture" a subtle yet sometimes important distinction. For instance, Mac and PC are both x86, but different architectures.

re: re:

Ugh... I would so much prefer real case. Makes it more readable. And I honestly don't know why we'd bother with this format anyway.

Edit: I guess the lowercase only is only to avoid duplicate hardware devices from occuring with slightly altering case between instances? Not that effective or useful, I think.

re: re:

Hardware tags would be optimal for optional hardware currently. It just seems strange to me that game has some hardware device listed that it does not depend on. Cases where it's one of the options for hardware, then I can understand it, but as long as it isn't part of a group that's completely optional. I honestly don't know how to interpret the hardware field, but first impression for me is that it's what the game requires or runs on, not what it may use for increased impressiviness.

re: re:

I don't know. I haven't paid any attention to consoles, but before X360 was released, I think they were going to make it HDTV only or something, but I guess they scrapped that idea? But that would've been console limitation rather than per-game one regardless.

over numerous hardware?
Until now I've used some of the hardware tags sparingly (no x86 for DOS & Windows games, no 68k for all Amiga games, for examples) Should I (we) continue using the hardware field in the same manor, or do will add every hardware item that applies?

re: re:

Now I have no idea what you're talking about. The x86 CPUs used in Mac are the same ones used in Windows and Linux, AFAIK. And I have no idea what arhitecture you're talking about besides CPU architectures, which isn't separate concept.


The x86 could be expanded to be more specific on DOS platform (286, 386, 486, etc.) but it has no other uses than historical. I wouldn't use the CPU descriptor for cases where it is the same in all games for a platform. But windows is slowly moving to 64bit era completely (Vista is the last one to support 32bit execs, as I've said before) so recording x86 besides the x86_64 is useful, though only in cases where both execs are available.

Wish to remark that the hardware field you are using now will be used to create a proper hardware database.
The names (or tags) used here are semicolon-separated, so they can contain any other character needed. When converted, the hardware "items" will have theyr own numeric ID, and the name will be used as temporary name, that you will be able to edit at any time.

Any part of the UVL database is case insensitive, to avoid any confusion. (I've never found a good reason to be case sensitive, except raw speed)

This field should be used to complement the platform field.
It was originally used for the arcade platform, where there are numerous different hardwares.

We don't need to remark that a SNES game uses a joypad, Amiga games are stored on a 3½disk floppy, ZX Spectrum games use the keyboard or the PS3 games are stored on blue-ray disk.
But we need to know id an Amiga game was released on CD-ROM (quite rare) or a NES game uses the lightgun, games using multitap or Raiden on PS1 let you flip your TV to play it vertically like in the arcades.

So most of the items proposed are good, but it depends on the platforms the game is on.

The only thing left out was what to do with _optional_ hardware.

I find it rather questionable to add "generic" hardware to the hardware field, like the multitap.

Yes, the next-to-come hardware list will be specific (with photos, description, and anything else), not generic.

It's enough that the tag groups are left undeleted until then. Cleaning up the tags does not do it automatically, you know :)
Although empty groups don't appear in tag lists, no matter if they have description or not.