Universal Videogame List - www.uvlist.net

re: Tags needed

seamlessworld?
Ultima VII Ultima IX were attempts to do this.

re: re: Tags needed

Could work. Although I'd like to point that it does not fit very well games where you can travel to many worlds, but I guess it only speaks of the game "world" in the broader sense (the game's uni-/multiverse).

re: re: re: Tags needed
At its most basic level, these games are attempting to preserve the 4th wall. There are many mechanisms that can break the 4th wall to remind the player that the action they are seeing is only a game. Fades, cuts, maps, menus, and other cinematic transitions that are not explained by the games' fiction.

The following suggestion were inspired by the zone-/level-/seam-less tag. They are probably more suited for strengthed tags
4thwalltransit
The character goes from location to location (or the 'set' changes) with no fades, cuts, fast-forwards, or transition screens. With the possible exception of being knocked out or being put to sleep. Or other such vision obscuring techniques. 'Warps' could apply if they are seamless. Mario fades or cuts when pipe warping, so this doesn't apply. Link also fades or cuts, even though a whirlwind or 'sparkling' picks link up, we don't get to see the trip to the next destination (plus it fades and cuts between the outerworld and dungeons and some Zeldas fade between areas.)
4thwallloading
Some games attempt to integrate the loading screens as part of the game's fiction. Say you have a space exploration game where you travel from solar system to solar system. It takes time to load between each system and while the loading it taking place the player is told something like "Traveling at Warp speed." and they are treated to a fancy light show while the next system loads instead of seeing a traditional loading screen. An unscrupulous marketing team (as if their is another type) would be tempted to cover bugs by writing in the manual "Warp travel is unpredictable and ships sometime become stuck. (Save your game before traveling)".
4thwallintro
Most of these attempts are pretty feeble. A common example is to have an introduction cut scene move seamlessly into the player opening or unrolling a book, scroll, or map. Or the player selects something in the game world and is zooms to fill the screen. Then a pen, pin, or pointing finger appears (a cursor), which the player uses to point to something. The end result looks more like something from the game world then a start menu. But sometimes the cinematic intro doesn't change and the player suddenly just finds themselves in control of one of the characters in the scene.
4thwallmenus
Most of these attempts are pretty feeble. A common example is to have an introduction cut scene move seamlessly into the player opening or unrolling a book, scroll, or map. Or the player selects something in the game world and is zooms to fill the screen. Then a pen, pin, or pointing finger appears (a cursor), which the player uses to point to something. The end result looks more like something from the game world then a start menu; but it is in fact a game menu.
[[gametag:4thwallsaves]]
Very difficult to implement well. Saving and loading is handled within the game's fiction.

re: re: re: re: Tags needed
The only problem is that they don't seem to be understandable without explanation.

All cases I know where it works like that have the save screen appear or just announcement of "game saved". RE games with their type recorders and some others with inn guestbooks and the like. but these all announce the thing in some way. Automatic checkpoint saves are too, but they usually announce themselves as well. Periodic/checkpoint auto-saves tend to freeze the games as well for a short period and then there's those that only save at the end of a "mission" which would fit this perfectly but otherwise these games usually break the 4th wall quite clearly. This is actually difficult in technical sense since making a copy of the gameworld state isn't very fast usually, some games save very little information about its state so they can cope with it much more easily, but they usually re-spawn mobs and other stuff too or just keep track of everything worth saving all the time which is just a short record of actions done and current location (adventure games survive with this quite well).

The different ~ world tags could actually be changed to just describe the environments and use 'other world' tag in cases where we really are talking of other worlds. makes the deserts, gaias and others more generic and usable in other cases as well. However, this requires the possibility of searching for more than one tag at a time.

Edit: Changed the name stubs to be without the ~world part.

-> simulated fear
The only case I know of simulated fear is DCotE. This will never be accomplished in a manner that it doesn't attract ridcule as there will always be people who can't immerse themselves in the game or even relate to the situation the character is in, so they see this only as an annoyance that they don't understand.

-> simulated insanity
Only known instance is Bloodlines, but only if you picked Malkavian vampire. Never tried it, but I hear it's quite interesting.


Usually seen in strategy games as troop morale. Never applied to player character in games where only one is controlled.

Fear is simulated in many D&D game. If a character surcomes to fear they are either paralised or run from the battle. In some games, one character running can trigger another, thus morale is simulated also. Ultima VII includes fear and moral


Eternal Darkness also simulates insanity

re: re:

I only remember some of the goblinoids getting this spreading fear thing, but even that was poorly done. Still, it's there, however awful instance it is.


Never played it, but cool that there are more of these. :)

But, what I really wanted to know, is that if these names (morale, simulatedfear, simulatedinsanity) are acceptable as tags or do we want to use something different? The latter two seem a bit long, but only so because fear can't be used and insanity might be nice synonym for dementia for some cases.


Hopefully you didn't mistake morale with moral, and I assume you didn't :)

Any idea what instances are called where when you look down and see yourself? Or what to call them?
Example: koti.mbnet.fi/ultima/uvl/dm_self.jpg

Trespasser was (among) the first to do this, but it also had quite a bit more in it besides just seeing your body properly.

re: re: re:
But, what I really wanted to know, is that if these names (morale, simulatedfear, simulatedinsanity) are acceptable as tags or do we want to use something different? The latter two seem a bit long, but only so because fear can't be used and insanity might be nice synonym for dementia for some cases.

simfear, simmorale, siminsanity
We run the risk of confusing tags with Maxis' games at first glance, but these are nice and short. Also, its conceivable that game will be published in the future that go by these titles now that Will Write has abandon his 'non-violent game designer' reputation and has begun experimenting with procedurally generated games.


I meant morale, but it may have been a Freudian slip as U7 also also includes a moral system :) Ultima VII includes fear and morale and morality

re: re: re: re:

I don't think morale needs the prefix, except for consistency with the other two (and I actually already used it :P). And confusion with the Sim series because of the shortened sim prefix might be a bit too common.

This seems to be bound for becoming awfully wordy unless we use mutation, which unfortunately downplays the more pronounced cases where full mutation occurs.

The only game I know where this happens is Entomorph.

Note: This is NOT for temporary/reversible changes.

Rush strategy is still a bad choice, even though I've already used it. The type is actually closely related to tourneys where the game length is preferably only that ~15 minutes which these games usually have outside carefully orchestrated single-player campaigns.

Tourney/Tournament alone wouldn't be descriptive enough I think, but I can't think of any additional or alternative wording to make it clearer.

I thought about a tag but I don't know how to name it.

"Old" games sometimes used passwords in the instruction manual for "copy protection". A bad method as you couldn't play your game anymore if you lose the instruction manual... It could be a "color table" you find in the manual, ("Which color stands at E14?" - Hugo used this), or a word to find in the manual ("What is the 3rd word of the 6th line of the 24th page?" - PoP used this).

instructionmanualpasswordcopyprotection ? A (little) bit long, I guess...

Zerothis listed several CP methods here, and the feelies are what you're looking for. I personally find "feelies" to not be meaningful enough alone to be useful in this, but there's really no better alternative as far as I know.

Thanks ! I didn't remember this thread :)

I'll continue this discussion on Zerothis' topic.

I think the term "feelies" is older than I am. They gradually faded out of use in favor of CD checks, encryption keys, and other digital copy protection crap. Since the method is rarely used anymore, so the term is likewise. But people familiar with games from the feelies era will know what it means.

I'm searching for the best fitting tag name for stock broker / share trading / wall street / stock market games.

It will be listed here instead when created. Personally I'd go for stock market, but I don't play such games and generally have very little understanding of the subject, so... anyway, the others should be added as synonyms anyway.