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God as protagonist

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by Sanguine
# 2 months and 25 days ago
Any ideas for what to call the protagonists who are gods or demi-gods? godprotagonist sounds a bit silly to me, so I'm hoping to avoid that.

This would cover cases which don't belong to god game genre and even for them where the player does assume the identity of a god (in some of them you don't)

I'll give this more thought myself later today once I'm out of school.

Anyway, some examples:
* Too Human's Baldur
* Thor in God of Thunder and in any other games
* Maya in Summoner 2
* The Bhaalspawn in Baldur's Gate series

What would godling sound like to others?
by Don Andy
# 2 months and 25 days ago
divineprotagonist perhaps?
by Sanguine
# 2 months and 25 days ago
People tend to associate divine with good (although somewhat incorrectly, but we could ignore that) and this is not always true, but it's also associated with holy/sacred things and that can get a bit dirty but not in reality (an "evil" god might think itself unholy in face of some major religion it opposes and some faiths use unholy to contrast with others, but these are only in fictional ones and their overdone evilness - although used in reverse to condemn the others), otherwise it's a good idea and would work. I just dislike the all too common association with good it has.

Yet more examples:
* Amaterasu in Okami
* The whatshisname in Knights of Xentar

Godling doesn't work because it implies inferiority which may not be/is not universal. Looking through the dictionary there doesn't seem to be any decent choices, making divine the best one so far.
by Zerothis
# 2 months and 25 days ago
godlikeprotagonist?
Actraiser comes to mind, and this seems complicated. Technically God, the Judeuo-Christian God, is the protagonist of this game. In the skycastle mode, He is Himself and unseen. Godprotagonist,judeuo-christianGodprotagonist? Somehow, these don't seem to fit though, is this even one of the definitions this tag is aiming for? In sim mode He would appaer to take direct control of an Angel (angelicprotagonist?). Biblicaly speaking, an Angel must do God's will or be cast away from God's presence (technically, out of heaven), so its also safe to assume the angel is the protagonist at this point so long as he continues to obey and the player as no option to disobey. By the way, the angel can not be a devineprotagonist because angels (in God grace) vehemently deny divinity. Even Lucifer him dares not claim divinity (at least at first, nor dares he speak God's name) saying instead says "I will become like The Most High [God]". Again he dare not suggest divinity to anyone but God when he temps Eve telling her "You will become like God". But this is just a detailed expation of Saguine's thought that people associate divine with good (same as angels). But since there's no difference in God's commands and the angle's actions, unseen God himself can still be considered the protagonist. Godprotagonist,judeuo-christianGodprotagonist.
In action mode, his spirit possesses a statue and he controls it from an outside view. This is actually much more like the Geek myths and against the promises and teachings of Judeuo-Christian God. godlikeprotagonist? It also happens to be against the Socratic God as this is demonstration of 'not being divine enough to be worshiped', so worshippedprotagonist wouldn't fit. The celts didn't exactly worship their gods so much as placated or passified them, so worshippedprotagonist would fit them. And their's a major problem with God or god(s) protagonist, they are doomed to be inaccurate because any god who is bound to follow restrictions necessary for a balanced game is likely very un-god like. As far as I can tell, all approaches to God or god(s) as protagonist are just to complicated. However, a lesser being protagonist that is higher than humans, or shall we say, of heavenly origin, could easilly be called an angelic. Note that even demons are angelic or heavenly beings. In the old testement, the 'demons' are not distinguished from angels by a word, they are all called ben'elohiym (sons of God). The 'elohiym part of the work implies 'ordinary gods' as opposed to Elohim or `Eloha (God). a closer but still inaccurate translation of could be 'an elohimish species'. But were back to the problem of perceived good and evil, angelicprotagonist and heavenlyprotagonist both imply a good protagonist whild demonicprotagonist would seem to be an unquestionably evil protagonist. I would say to use angelicprotagonist despite perception, except that the game authors generally have the same perceptions. The only possible reluctant solution I can come up with is to use an accurate word that very few have a misperceived definition of. Unfortunatly this means few will know the definition, so they'll just have to read the group's short description.

elohiymprotagonist
A protagonist of a heavenly species or origin. That is demons, angels or others of similar kind and stature.

I'm not to happy with any one my suggestions, but favor elohiymprotagonist.

demi-gods however are a bit easier. I think they should be separate and tagged demigodprotagonist
by Sanguine
# 2 months and 25 days ago (updated 2 months and 25 days ago)
Angels and demons have their own separate tags.

God in this does not refer to any specific god of some religion (like the judeo-christian god you, Zerothis, mentioned so much), but any and all gods, so nitpicking about it doesn't help much. I'm, however, not so sure of separating demigods from this, as in many religions gods aren't as omnipotent as they're in many western ones and often are closer to mortals in a sense, appearing only as demigods in comparison to the others, so the distinction becomes only apparent in how they're represented (actually, are there any real instances of close to omnipotent gods appearing outside of god game genre?).

Elohiym refers to specific religion and is not therefore as useful, though in cases where the two are related (angels and demons, I mean), I wouldn't mind the instances being tagged with something that signifies it. Unfortunately (not really, I like that it's so) in many fantasy worlds the two don't have such a relation, in fact, they may lack any relation at all than that they usually stand at completely opposing sides of some moral or whatever scale.

Oh yes, there's the flaw of using divine for this, it covers angels and (practically) demons as well.

I dislike godlike almost as much as god, however, so we're left with no outstandingly good choices now (IMO).
by Zerothis
# 2 months and 23 days ago
You are confusing a language with a single religion. And ben'elohiym is angles and demons, 'elohiym is not actually a word, its a suffix. I might not have made that clear, sorry. The only unique name for God (as in "associated with one religion") in the Old Testament is YWHY, all other words are general words. In Ancient Hebrew, elohim and eloha are general words for god(s), as in the gods you are talking about. The words are also used to refer to pagan gods in the Bible. It would be one of the worst sins a Hebrew could commit, a violation of the first commandment, if elohim, or eloha meant only the Eloha and was used to refer to any other being. Elohim, and eloha are the words written when non-Hebrews, and enemies of the Hebrews, to refer to their own gods or the God of the Hebrews. God Himself asked Isiah "Is there a god (an eloha) besides me?" The word is not exclusive in that same way that the word "god" in English is also not exclusive. However, the word "god" in English is sometimes confused with the judeo-christian God, that's why I suggested elohiymprotagonist in the first place. I considered a Greek word also, theosprotagonist. And a Latin or Latin derived word, deityprotagonist. But these are both linked to 'western thought' so I considered them not universal enough nor suitable for protagonists they would be applied to. Plus deity requires a worshiped god, not all are, especially the ones that are protagonists in videogames. Also there is no actual Greek word "deity", it is an English word derived from the words "deus" and "dea", which are exclusively male and female respectively, those to are not universal enough to cover every protagonist it would be applied to. 'elohiym, is linked to the world most equally, mostly because of its obscurity. It is linked more so to religions than some other words, but not one. Jewish, Christian and Muslim holy writings are all linked to the same basic origin, as is all the other religions mentioned in these texts.

I hesitate to point out the obvious, but you cannot find a word for god(s) that is not linked to religion. I mean, duh! We must pick a name with a religious meaning, conjure a word to match the definition, or must not have the tag. elohiymian, deitian, theosian, godian? (-ish is wrong, I misused it previously). Also, if Hebrew words are automatically associated with one religion, then many languages are in need of a major overhaul or just stuck with religious associations. By this logic, Latin is associated with the Catholic church, Greek is associated with the gods of myth, Arabic languages are associated with the prophet Mohammad; Asian languages are associated with Sid, Indoniasian languages are associated with 330 million gods (and counting), the task seems insurmountable.

None of the godian protagonists in game are omnipotent, omnipresent or ominanything. Certainly not while their in the game. They all struggle and they can all lose.
by Sanguine
# 2 months and 23 days ago
The primary concern should be that we mainly cater to people who understand English, so using some other languages in tags - or much anything else for that matter - detracts from that point. The association with the Judeo-Christian God when using Hebrew word for it is therefore natural (even if incorrect in the grand scheme of things), pretty much the same as if we used kami for it (which as far as I know doesn't even mean god, it's just the closest equivalent).

Also, with that first statement comes the fact that very few will know what the tag actually is about just by looking at its name, requiring them to see the tooltip and possibly even the group page to know, which is detrimental as that shouldn't be required with any of them (a fact that needs improvement with other tags as well).

but you cannot find a word for god(s) that is not linked to religion.

To religion, yes, but to specific religion it can be less straightforward.

Regardless of all that, I'd like to go with godlikeprotagonist as it seems to be the only thing even remotely suited for this while staying within the bothersome boundaries of English language.
by Sanguine
# 2 months and 22 days ago
Well, I used godlingprotagonist instead. We can change it later if it's seen that some of the others work better (god-like, god, etc. just don't fit well with most cases, IMO).
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