Feel free to edit it yourself to add / delete suggestions. I think the discussion about why / how to add / delete / modify these entries should be done as a reply to this thread, and this post should link to the post in which it is discussed.
Currently, here is what is suggested:
Additions:
* Gamate *DONE*
dandyboh: Gamate, by Bits Corporation, handheld, 1990, 4th generation. Around 70 games.
* Windows Phone 8 (to be discussed more?)
Sanguine: Windows Phone 8 needs its own platform as it is no longer WinCE based as Windows Phone 7 and earlier were.
Zerothis: Agreed, WindowsCE and Windows Phone 8 may not be as incredibly different as Mac Classic and Mac OS X, but they are at least as different as UNIX and Linux. As such it needs to be a separate platform.
Sanguine: Windows Phone 8 is actually closer to the desktop version of Windows 8 than WinCE, except it's ARM based (Qualcomm Snapdragon) rather than x86.
Zerothis: Agreed, WindowsCE and Windows Phone 8 may not be as incredibly different as Mac Classic and Mac OS X, but they are at least as different as UNIX and Linux. As such it needs to be a separate platform.
Sanguine: Windows Phone 8 is actually closer to the desktop version of Windows 8 than WinCE, except it's ARM based (Qualcomm Snapdragon) rather than x86.
* Interact Home Computer*DONEish* (to be discussed more?)
dandyboh: Interact Home Computer , by Interact Co. of Ann Arbor MI., 1979, later rebranded as "Victor Lambda I" by company "Lambda System" for the French market. Uses an Intel 8080A running at 2Mhz. It has a RAM of 16 KB and a ROM of 2 KB.
Zerothis: The operating system is in BIOS with essential elements (to actually doing anything productive) expected to occur on the cassette (like with a bootloader disk). The OS apparently has no name simple being "The Interact Home Computer BIOS". It was developed for the original Interact Home Computer by Jack Unger. Someone could ask him for more details, he's on Linkedin.
Zerothis: The operating system is in BIOS with essential elements (to actually doing anything productive) expected to occur on the cassette (like with a bootloader disk). The OS apparently has no name simple being "The Interact Home Computer BIOS". It was developed for the original Interact Home Computer by Jack Unger. Someone could ask him for more details, he's on Linkedin.
* DAI Personal Computer
dandyboh: DAI Personal Computer, by InData (Belgium), released in 1980.
* VTech Laser 200
dandyboh: VTech Laser 200 by VTech, released in 1983, also known as the Salora Fellow in Finland, Texet TX8000 in the UK and Dick Smith VZ 200 in Australia and New Zealand.
Operating system BASIC V1.2, CPU Zilog Z80A clocked at 3.58 MHz, Motorola 6847 video processor, 6-22KB USER-RAM + 2KB VRAM, 16KB ROM, Display 32×16 (8 colors), 128×64 graphics (2 background, 3 foreground colors).
Operating system BASIC V1.2, CPU Zilog Z80A clocked at 3.58 MHz, Motorola 6847 video processor, 6-22KB USER-RAM + 2KB VRAM, 16KB ROM, Display 32×16 (8 colors), 128×64 graphics (2 background, 3 foreground colors).
* Sanyo PHC-25
dandyboh: Sanyo PHC-25, by Sanyo (Japan), released in 1983.
CPU: NEC D780C (compatible Zilog Z80A), 4 MHz, 16K RAM, 6KB VRAM, 24K ROM, Text Modes: 16 x 16 / 32 x 16, Graphic Modes: 64 x 48 (8 colors) / 192 x 128 (4 colors) / 256 x 192 (4 colors).
CPU: NEC D780C (compatible Zilog Z80A), 4 MHz, 16K RAM, 6KB VRAM, 24K ROM, Text Modes: 16 x 16 / 32 x 16, Graphic Modes: 64 x 48 (8 colors) / 192 x 128 (4 colors) / 256 x 192 (4 colors).
* Jupiter Ace
dandyboh: Jupiter Ace, by Jupiter Cantab (UK), released in 1982, used Forth programming language. Followed by Jupiter ACE 4000 in 1983.
CPU: Zilog Z80A clocked at 3.25 MHz, Memory: 1 kB, expandable up to 49 kB (Video SRAM excluded).
CPU: Zilog Z80A clocked at 3.25 MHz, Memory: 1 kB, expandable up to 49 kB (Video SRAM excluded).
* Camputers Lynx *DONE*
dandyboh: Camputers Lynx, by Camputers Limited (UK), released in 1983.
CPU: Z-80A, 16K ROM, 48K RAM, Camputers BASIC, Display Text: 24 lines of 40 characters; Graphics: 248 by 256; Eight colours.
CPU: Z-80A, 16K ROM, 48K RAM, Camputers BASIC, Display Text: 24 lines of 40 characters; Graphics: 248 by 256; Eight colours.
* Memotech MTX *DONE*
dandyboh: Memotech MTX (MTX500, MTX512 and RS128), by Memotech (UK), released in 1983. Similar to MSX but not compatible. Z80A, 32/64/128KB RAM depending on the model, 32KB ROM, Basic language + built-in assembler.
* Mega Duck / Cougar Boy
dandyboh: Mega Duck / Cougar Boy, by Welback Holdings (HK), released in 1993, sold in Germany, France, Netherlands and Brazil. Handheld console, about 40 games.
* Galaksija
leszy: Galaksija, Yugoslavia
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
* EI NIS Pecom 32/64
leszy: EI NIS Pecom 32/64, Yugoslavia
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
* PEL Varaždin Orao
leszy: PEL Varaždin Orao, Yugoslavia
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
I have found this lovely page which lists games for the Galaksija, Pecom and Orao. It is in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian (whatever you like to call it) but even without knowledge of the language it's easy to navigate.
* Tesla PMD 85
leszy: *Tesla PMD 85, Czechoslovakia.
Some software, mostly games, for the PMD 85 can be found here (Slovak).
Some software, mostly games, for the PMD 85 can be found here (Slovak).
* MSX2+ / MSX Turbo-R
diedel: What about the MSX2+ and the MSX Turbo-R systems?
Ok, there are not many games but some of them are very popular.
MSX2+:
F1 Spirit 3D Special
Laydock 2
MSX Turbo-R:
Illusion City
Fray
List of exclusive MSX2+ games
List of exclusive MSX Turbo-R games
teran01: Could be done with tags, could be done with seperate platforms. This problem is similar to my "Sharp X1" question I had. As long as there is no new platform I suggest to enter the games under MSX2 and tag them.
teran01: Regarding MSX I think they can be considered different platforms. They all represented a whole new generation of MSX with different minimum system specs retaining most of backwards compatability. I think of MSX -> MSX2 and so on like Amiga OCS -> Amiga AGA. So they were a real step forward not just some extra RAM like Atari 520ST -> 1040ST or Amiga 500 -> Amiga 2000.
Ok, there are not many games but some of them are very popular.
MSX2+:
F1 Spirit 3D Special
Laydock 2
MSX Turbo-R:
Illusion City
Fray
List of exclusive MSX2+ games
List of exclusive MSX Turbo-R games
teran01: Could be done with tags, could be done with seperate platforms. This problem is similar to my "Sharp X1" question I had. As long as there is no new platform I suggest to enter the games under MSX2 and tag them.
teran01: Regarding MSX I think they can be considered different platforms. They all represented a whole new generation of MSX with different minimum system specs retaining most of backwards compatability. I think of MSX -> MSX2 and so on like Amiga OCS -> Amiga AGA. So they were a real step forward not just some extra RAM like Atari 520ST -> 1040ST or Amiga 500 -> Amiga 2000.
* VideoBrain Family Computer*STARTED*
dandyboh: VideoBrain Family Computer, from Umtech, first introduced in December 1977 and first sold in March 1978. 6 games + 5 educational software are known to exist for it. First computer with a cartridge port.
* CompuColor 8001I (*?*) / CompuColor II *STARTED*
dandyboh: CompuColor 8001 and CompuColor II, released in December 1976 and 1977, by CompuColor Corporation, are considered as the first color computers. A great website is dedicated to the CompuColor II, containing an ActionScript emulator of the computer and many informations about the computer and games released for it.
* Exidy Sorcerer *DONE*
dandyboh: Exidy Sorcerer, by Exidy (USA) in 1978. Sold in Europe in 1979 by Liveport Ltd (UK) and CompuData (Netherlands). CPU Zilog Z80, 4k RAM expandable to 48, 4k ROM, display 64x30, monochrome screen, no sound. ~6 or 7 games are known to exist, mainly clones of arcade hits (Space Invaders, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Breakout, ...).
* Cambridge Z88
dandyboh: Cambridge Z88 in 1988 by Cambridge Computers is a portable computer. I don't know how many games were developed for it, but I know there is at least one: Manic Miner.
Deletion:
* Odyssey 200
teran01: I request to remove the Odyssey 200 and other super old "consoles" that had only built in game-variants (mostly pong variants). Maybe even remove the original Odyssey. We could add a new platform which comprises all these different consoles and even similar electronic handheld devices like the Game&Watch games.
dandyboh: I agree with this. The Odyssey 200 just has built-in games, it is not a real console like Odyssey 2 or Odyssey 3.
dandyboh: I agree with this. The Odyssey 200 just has built-in games, it is not a real console like Odyssey 2 or Odyssey 3.
Modifications:
* Odyssey³† *DONE*
zerothis: I think Odyssey³ is not the best name for the platform. Videopac G7400 is much more recognizable worldwide.
* KC 85
leszy: Maybe the platform KC85 should be renamed to KC85/2-4 (there were three models: KC85/2, KC85/3 and KC85/4, HC900 is another name for the KC85/2). There are two series of computers from the German Democratic Republic that go by the name KC85, there is also the KC85/1 (=KC87), so just KC85 is a bit ambiguous. There is no compatibility between the two series. The KC85 on UVL should be the KC85/2-4.
Also R.F.T. is listed as the developer of the KC85 (KC85/2-4). It should be Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen (or if that name is not long enough for you VEB Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen or VEB Mikroelektronik „Wilhelm Pieck" Mühlhausen). Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen was part of the VEB Kombinat Mikroelektronik „Karl Marx" Erfurt, but the developer should be Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen, I think.
The KC85/1 on the other hand was produced by VEB Robotron-Meßelektronik „Otto Schön" Dresden, part of the VEB Kombinat Robotron.
Also R.F.T. is listed as the developer of the KC85 (KC85/2-4). It should be Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen (or if that name is not long enough for you VEB Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen or VEB Mikroelektronik „Wilhelm Pieck" Mühlhausen). Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen was part of the VEB Kombinat Mikroelektronik „Karl Marx" Erfurt, but the developer should be Mikroelektronik Mühlhausen, I think.
The KC85/1 on the other hand was produced by VEB Robotron-Meßelektronik „Otto Schön" Dresden, part of the VEB Kombinat Robotron.
* Vii *DONE*
leszy: All information I found suggest that it was released in 2007, not 2006. See Wikipedia or BootlegGames Wiki
* VC-4000
dandyboh: It seems that the platform VC-4000 is only one model upon a large varieties of software-compatible machines.
VC-4000 production started in 1974, but the console was released in 1978 only.
The first one released was the 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, in the UK in 1976, also known as Radofin Programmierbares Video System, released in Germany the same year.
Radofin licensed its technology to many companies across Europe (and maybe also USA, Canada, Australia and Venezuela) and every company released its own console:
Radofin (1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, 1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Hanimex (HMG-1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, HMG-1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Fountain (Force 2, 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, 1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Grandstand (Advanced Programmable Video System)
Lansay (Lansay 1392)
Audiosonic (PP-1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, PP-1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Prinztronic (VC-6000, Tournament)
Acetronic (MPU-1000, MPU-2000)
Videomaster (Database)
Voltmace (Database)
Rowtron (Television Computer System)
Karvan (Jeu Vidéo TV)
Société Occitane Eléctronique (OC-2000)
ITMC (MPT-05)
Grundig (Super Play Computer 4000)
Interton (VC 4000)
These systems are not all compatible because of the shapes of the cartridges, but they are software-compatibles. It seems unclear if Interton built their system from scratch or bought the technology from another company.
So: what I want to bring up here is that I think we should add every game of these numerous platforms to a single platform (NB: I think this is already done). Should it be VC-4000 or 1292 APVS ? It may be 1292 APVS as it was the first one released ; or VC-4000 as it was the first one produced ; or MPU-1000 as it is the most famous and most sold of all these systems. But whatever we choose, I think we should choose the release date of 1976, and it seems strange to me not to choose 1292 APVS, the only one released in 1976, in this case.
Sources:
Consoledatabase
Wikipedia
Videogameconsolelibrary
VC-4000 production started in 1974, but the console was released in 1978 only.
The first one released was the 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, in the UK in 1976, also known as Radofin Programmierbares Video System, released in Germany the same year.
Radofin licensed its technology to many companies across Europe (and maybe also USA, Canada, Australia and Venezuela) and every company released its own console:
Radofin (1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, 1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Hanimex (HMG-1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, HMG-1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Fountain (Force 2, 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, 1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Grandstand (Advanced Programmable Video System)
Lansay (Lansay 1392)
Audiosonic (PP-1292 Advanced Programmable Video System, PP-1392 Advanced Programmable Video System)
Prinztronic (VC-6000, Tournament)
Acetronic (MPU-1000, MPU-2000)
Videomaster (Database)
Voltmace (Database)
Rowtron (Television Computer System)
Karvan (Jeu Vidéo TV)
Société Occitane Eléctronique (OC-2000)
ITMC (MPT-05)
Grundig (Super Play Computer 4000)
Interton (VC 4000)
These systems are not all compatible because of the shapes of the cartridges, but they are software-compatibles. It seems unclear if Interton built their system from scratch or bought the technology from another company.
So: what I want to bring up here is that I think we should add every game of these numerous platforms to a single platform (NB: I think this is already done). Should it be VC-4000 or 1292 APVS ? It may be 1292 APVS as it was the first one released ; or VC-4000 as it was the first one produced ; or MPU-1000 as it is the most famous and most sold of all these systems. But whatever we choose, I think we should choose the release date of 1976, and it seems strange to me not to choose 1292 APVS, the only one released in 1976, in this case.
Sources:
Consoledatabase
Wikipedia
Videogameconsolelibrary
* Apple IIe
dandyboh: Apple IIe platform seems to includes games from all the Apple II computers family (Apple I, Apple II, Apple IIe, Apple IIc - but not Apple IIGS which have its own platform). The 1976 release date indicated tend to prove it (Apple I was released in 1976, Apple II in 1977, Apple IIe in 1983). So maybe we should rename it to "Apple II" or "Apple II series"?
Or maybe we could switch "Apple IIe" platform to all the Apple computers above, but that would be a huge work.
zerothis: Apple I/II series
Or just
Apple II series
Seems reasonably ok to cover everything except ][gs EDIT: and except Apple ///
Or maybe we could switch "Apple IIe" platform to all the Apple computers above, but that would be a huge work.
zerothis: Apple I/II series
Or just
Apple II series
Seems reasonably ok to cover everything except ][gs EDIT: and except Apple ///
To be discussed more?
Zenith/Heath Z80 CPU systems
Zenith/Heath 8080 CPU systems
The heathh89 group seems to have games from both families of these computer systems. These systems are also CP/M compatible
*†Odyssey³
zerothis: I think Odyssey³ is not the best name for the platform. Videopac G7400 is much more recognizable worldwide.
* Sharp X1 series (to be discussed)
teran01: Question about the Sharp X1 series. From my understanding there are three major releases in the Sharp X1 series.
Sharp X1
Sharp X1 Turbo
Sharp X1 Turbo Z
In UVL we have Sharp X1 and Sharp X1 Turbo Z as platform. How should I enter "Sharp X1 Turbo" games? What makes the most sense regarding this platform.
a) Only have one single platform Sharp X1 and tag for "turbo" and "turbojavascript:void(0);z" games?
b) Three separate platforms?
c) Renaming platform "Sharp X1 Turbo Z" to "Sharp X1 Turbo" to inlude both "Z" and non-Z Turbo games?
I tend to c) because it seems that ROM collections differentiate between these two platforms, but don't have special Turbo Z collections.
teran 01: Now what about the Sharp X series? I do not know how it was done there. For me the main question is: How much do the games overlap here? Are there instances when the same game was published in a Sharp X1 version and a Sharp X1 Turbo (Z) version and how did they do it? Did they came on one and the same disk sharing the code and the system would recognise if it was a Sharp X1 Turbo and would display more colors for example? Or did they came in different game boxes marketed especially towards one range of Sharp X1 computer? In the second case and in the case that there is actually no overlapping of games between the systems I am for separate platforms, because we have a clear line and definition here when a game belongs to which platform. If there is overlapping and you have cases where you have one single game and you have to decide under which platform to put it (or both) then I would say merging of platforms makes sense. Similar as we have it for Atari 8-bit or C16/Plus4.
Sharp X1
Sharp X1 Turbo
Sharp X1 Turbo Z
In UVL we have Sharp X1 and Sharp X1 Turbo Z as platform. How should I enter "Sharp X1 Turbo" games? What makes the most sense regarding this platform.
a) Only have one single platform Sharp X1 and tag for "turbo" and "turbojavascript:void(0);z" games?
b) Three separate platforms?
c) Renaming platform "Sharp X1 Turbo Z" to "Sharp X1 Turbo" to inlude both "Z" and non-Z Turbo games?
I tend to c) because it seems that ROM collections differentiate between these two platforms, but don't have special Turbo Z collections.
teran 01: Now what about the Sharp X series? I do not know how it was done there. For me the main question is: How much do the games overlap here? Are there instances when the same game was published in a Sharp X1 version and a Sharp X1 Turbo (Z) version and how did they do it? Did they came on one and the same disk sharing the code and the system would recognise if it was a Sharp X1 Turbo and would display more colors for example? Or did they came in different game boxes marketed especially towards one range of Sharp X1 computer? In the second case and in the case that there is actually no overlapping of games between the systems I am for separate platforms, because we have a clear line and definition here when a game belongs to which platform. If there is overlapping and you have cases where you have one single game and you have to decide under which platform to put it (or both) then I would say merging of platforms makes sense. Similar as we have it for Atari 8-bit or C16/Plus4.
* ZPA IQ 151
leszy: *ZPA IQ 151, Czechoslovakia
the only thing I could find are very simple games from a czechoslovakian textbrook from 1987 that I found online. Here is the link in case someone is interested, games are on p. 161-197. I don't feel like typing them in.
So maybe that one should be a bit lower on the priority list.
The other systems that I proposed are still worth adding in my opinion. None of them are clones of other systems. The page that I linked above is actually very trustworthy it seems, so if they don't mention that a home computer is a clone, then it probably isn't.
I have to correct myself about the name:
The manufacturer of the Pecom32/64 is written EI Niš or Ei Niš (probably the "i" should be upper-case, though the company's logo has a lower-case i). EI/Ei is short for Elektronska Industrija, but it's definitely "Niš" (that's the city where the company is located), not "NIS".
Also, clones:
The PMD 85 has the following versions: PMD 85, 85-1, 85-2, 85-2A, 85-3, Mato.
Didaktik Alfa/Beta are clones of the PMD 85 and the Consul 2717 is a clone of the PMD 85-2.
I will look into other systems that seem worth adding later. I think it will be enough work to add games for the systems that I proposed already.
There is so much more that could be added. Maybe even printers ;-)
the only thing I could find are very simple games from a czechoslovakian textbrook from 1987 that I found online. Here is the link in case someone is interested, games are on p. 161-197. I don't feel like typing them in.
So maybe that one should be a bit lower on the priority list.
The other systems that I proposed are still worth adding in my opinion. None of them are clones of other systems. The page that I linked above is actually very trustworthy it seems, so if they don't mention that a home computer is a clone, then it probably isn't.
I have to correct myself about the name:
The manufacturer of the Pecom32/64 is written EI Niš or Ei Niš (probably the "i" should be upper-case, though the company's logo has a lower-case i). EI/Ei is short for Elektronska Industrija, but it's definitely "Niš" (that's the city where the company is located), not "NIS".
Also, clones:
The PMD 85 has the following versions: PMD 85, 85-1, 85-2, 85-2A, 85-3, Mato.
Didaktik Alfa/Beta are clones of the PMD 85 and the Consul 2717 is a clone of the PMD 85-2.
I will look into other systems that seem worth adding later. I think it will be enough work to add games for the systems that I proposed already.
There is so much more that could be added. Maybe even printers ;-)
* Amstrad PCW *DONE*
dandyboh: Amstrad PCW, by Amstrad (UK), released in September 1985, dedicated word processing computer (PCW stands for Personal Computer Wordprocessor) but several games were released on it.
CPU Zilog Z80 A running at 4 MHz (but is slowed down by the internal clock to 3,4 Mhz), 256 KB RAM (16 banks of 16 kb each), text mode 90 x 32, graphic mode 720 x 256 (PAL), 720 x 200 (NTSC), monochrome (black & green), OS : CP/M, CP/M+.
teran01: Mobygames added Amstrad PCW just recently to their list of platforms. A good indicator that its a valid candidate to add. Personally I don't know much about it. Only read some bits here and there in old Amstrad specific magazines when adding reviews from those mags.
zerothis: We could tag CPM or BASIC and have an Amstrad PCW platform.
His presents an issue for CP/M games for IBM-PC and clones. As we have no IBM-PC and clones platforms. For IBM-PC we have operating systems as platforms. It would not be very intuitive to tag, say, MS-DOS games as CP/M. For this we could add an IBM-PC-CP/M platform.
We could have a CP/M platform. This covers CP/M but not so much BASIC for Amstrad PCW. And the actual systems(s) it runs on would need to be tagged. This would lead to oddities such as tagging "Apple2", "Commodore 128", "Commodore 64", "Atari 8-bit"
I think I have a third choice, which is even worse is some ways but solves a lot. And we are currently using parts of this solution already.
Join _all_ OS-Platform occurrences into their host machine. There is but one "IBM and clones" (Intel PC Architecture) platform, and tag all operating systems. But elevate selected container groups (OS Tags) so that they can appear and be counted in UVL as platforms. And finally, ensure that these selected container groups are properly counted or not counted (depending on context) when used across multiple platforms OS/2-x86, OS/2-PPC, CP/M-IBM, CP/M-PCW, CP/M-C128, CP/M-TRS80, and so on. IBM and clones would actually appear as multiple platforms depending on context. The oft ignored 'PC Booters', is covered by this also.This also solves the Linux is not UNIX and the non-UNIX/Linux games currently in the Linux platform. (obsolete issue)
Ah, I was wondering about this:
So in theory, its like modern java. However, I wonder if, in practice, game authors often used CPU specific or even platform specific code in their games, or like with modern java, took perfectly cross-platform games and wrapped then in OS-dependent containers, in such a way that the 'CP/M application' effectively became OS specific?
I remember both DOS and Apple applications that asked me to correctly specify details like this before they would function properly. I think this need not count towards platform compatibility. That said, I will also note that I have never used CP/M in life, virtual life, or emulated life.
CPU Zilog Z80 A running at 4 MHz (but is slowed down by the internal clock to 3,4 Mhz), 256 KB RAM (16 banks of 16 kb each), text mode 90 x 32, graphic mode 720 x 256 (PAL), 720 x 200 (NTSC), monochrome (black & green), OS : CP/M, CP/M+.
teran01: Mobygames added Amstrad PCW just recently to their list of platforms. A good indicator that its a valid candidate to add. Personally I don't know much about it. Only read some bits here and there in old Amstrad specific magazines when adding reviews from those mags.
zerothis: We could tag CPM or BASIC and have an Amstrad PCW platform.
His presents an issue for CP/M games for IBM-PC and clones. As we have no IBM-PC and clones platforms. For IBM-PC we have operating systems as platforms. It would not be very intuitive to tag, say, MS-DOS games as CP/M. For this we could add an IBM-PC-CP/M platform.
We could have a CP/M platform. This covers CP/M but not so much BASIC for Amstrad PCW. And the actual systems(s) it runs on would need to be tagged. This would lead to oddities such as tagging "Apple2", "Commodore 128", "Commodore 64", "Atari 8-bit"
I think I have a third choice, which is even worse is some ways but solves a lot. And we are currently using parts of this solution already.
Join _all_ OS-Platform occurrences into their host machine. There is but one "IBM and clones" (Intel PC Architecture) platform, and tag all operating systems. But elevate selected container groups (OS Tags) so that they can appear and be counted in UVL as platforms. And finally, ensure that these selected container groups are properly counted or not counted (depending on context) when used across multiple platforms OS/2-x86, OS/2-PPC, CP/M-IBM, CP/M-PCW, CP/M-C128, CP/M-TRS80, and so on. IBM and clones would actually appear as multiple platforms depending on context. The oft ignored 'PC Booters', is covered by this also.
Ah, I was wondering about this:
Programs written for CP/M were typically portable between different machines, usually only requiring specification of the escape sequences for control of the screen and printer. This portability made CP/M popular, and much more software was written for CP/M than for operating systems that only ran on one brand of hardware. One restriction on portability was that certain programs used the extended instruction set of the Z80 processor and would not operate on an 8080 or 8085 processor.
So in theory, its like modern java. However, I wonder if, in practice, game authors often used CPU specific or even platform specific code in their games, or like with modern java, took perfectly cross-platform games and wrapped then in OS-dependent containers, in such a way that the 'CP/M application' effectively became OS specific?
escape sequences for control of the screen and printer.
I remember both DOS and Apple applications that asked me to correctly specify details like this before they would function properly. I think this need not count towards platform compatibility. That said, I will also note that I have never used CP/M in life, virtual life, or emulated life.
*CP/M
Quoted from dandyboh:
Recently, I wandered if it would be better to add CP/M platform instead of PCW, as Zerothis suggested years ago... but I disagree with that: most CPC games ran on Basic but a few ones ran on CP/M ; most PCW games run on CP/M but a few ones ran on Basic, so... maybe the better solution would simply be to add CP/M tag to games which run on CP/M (instead of removing all CPC / CP/M games from the CPC platform and transfer them to the new CP/M platform).
[...]
If we create a CP/M platform, what should we do with games which are Amstrad CPC / CP/M or IBM PC / CP/M?
Recently, I wandered if it would be better to add CP/M platform instead of PCW, as Zerothis suggested years ago... but I disagree with that: most CPC games ran on Basic but a few ones ran on CP/M ; most PCW games run on CP/M but a few ones ran on Basic, so... maybe the better solution would simply be to add CP/M tag to games which run on CP/M (instead of removing all CPC / CP/M games from the CPC platform and transfer them to the new CP/M platform).
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If we create a CP/M platform, what should we do with games which are Amstrad CPC / CP/M or IBM PC / CP/M?
Quoted from zerothis:
We could tag CPM or BASIC and have an Amstrad PCW platform.
His presents an issue for CP/M games for IBM-PC and clones. As we have no IBM-PC and clones platforms. For IBM-PC we have operating systems as platforms. It would not be very intuitive to tag, say, MS-DOS games as CP/M. For this we could add an IBM-PC-CP/M platform.
We could have a CP/M platform. This covers CP/M but not so much BASIC for Amstrad PCW. And the actual systems(s) it runs on would need to be tagged. This would lead to oddities such as tagging "Apple2", "Commodore 128", "Commodore 64", "Atari 8-bit"
Any other choices?
To include CP/M properly, we would need to include this list of platforms in some way (over 200). Many systems on this list can run other OSes besides CP/M by default or installed later. And, MSX machines can also run CP/M
We could tag CPM or BASIC and have an Amstrad PCW platform.
His presents an issue for CP/M games for IBM-PC and clones. As we have no IBM-PC and clones platforms. For IBM-PC we have operating systems as platforms. It would not be very intuitive to tag, say, MS-DOS games as CP/M. For this we could add an IBM-PC-CP/M platform.
We could have a CP/M platform. This covers CP/M but not so much BASIC for Amstrad PCW. And the actual systems(s) it runs on would need to be tagged. This would lead to oddities such as tagging "Apple2", "Commodore 128", "Commodore 64", "Atari 8-bit"
Any other choices?
To include CP/M properly, we would need to include this list of platforms in some way (over 200). Many systems on this list can run other OSes besides CP/M by default or installed later. And, MSX machines can also run CP/M
Quoted from dandyboh:
I prefer the first one, as I think we should give priority to "platform = machine" rather than "platform = OS" when it is possible. This may not be a great solution BTW, but I can't find another for now.
I prefer the first one, as I think we should give priority to "platform = machine" rather than "platform = OS" when it is possible. This may not be a great solution BTW, but I can't find another for now.
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